Peter H – How To Get Rich SLOWLY With Football Trading
In this edition of Trader Talk, I catch up with UFT member Peter who has been making 4 figures a month consistently from football trading for around 2 years now.
The most interesting points of all from this talk is Peter’s background story and how that has contributed to where he is today and his future aims.
I haven’t met many traders who have such a nailed down game plan like he has and his concept of “getting rich slowly” is something that many might find interesting to read about and could be a game changer for many who are still working on their discipline.
From the brink of divorce to now looking forward to retiring early with his wife, this is definitely a great story!
Grab a nice cup of tea, coffee or an ice cold beer and let’s get into it!
Hey Peter. Many thanks for sitting down for this interview for the Sports Trading Life readers
So you make a nice 4 figures per month income trading football alongside your day job, congrats on that. So, firstly let’s get into how you got into football trading.
Thanks for having me Ben, been a reader for a couple of years so this is surreal to be on here!!!
My journey into football trading was via matched betting. This seems to be a similar story for many other football traders from what I gather but I guess my reasons for getting involved in matched betting might give you more insight into what motivated me with all this.
Yes good idea, do tell us more!
Lil back story for you, my wife and I got married and had kids in our early 20s and also took on a mortgage at the same time. The deep end!
At the time most of my friends were single and going on typical lads holidays to Ibiza but I was stuck changing nappies. So we went down a different path to most our age which was actually a little bit miserable and not something I would advise younger readers to do. Live your life while you can!!!
We were both just finished uni and worked average paying government jobs (and still do) had student loan debt, credit card debt, car payments, an EXPENSIVE mortgage, kids to feed and our jobs didn’t pay very well so we were hand to mouth and constantly just waiting for payday. (The story gets better I promise you!)
Thinking back, we were stressed and it affected our marriage also until one day we both said we can’t live like this and we had ‘that talk’.
But instead of getting divorced we realised it was the DEBT that was stressing us out and from there I looked online at ways we can pay down and get rid of our debt as quick as possible.
I found the money saving expert forum which had some really great advice and we followed a lot of that and it was on there I found out about matched betting.
I had never even been into a bookmakers before but I followed the process and did pretty well with that.
Around that time, I joined Profit Maximiser by Mike Cruickshank and it was one of the best investments ever as it introduced me to the casino offers and similar. For me this was better to do than something like oddsmonkey since I really HATE monthly payments.
We used matched betting to rapidly eliminate our credit card debt which was the worst of all as the interest just kept piling up and then the fines if we missed payments as you can imagine.
We kept doing that alongside other online money making things like ebay and my wife on etsy and finally got to a point where we had some breathing space.
Interesting. So I assume at some point the matched betting slowed down, then you found football trading?
The offers slowed down as expected and someone in the PM Facebook group told me to check out your videos on Youtube and and this was my first look at football trading. You only had about 3 videos up at the time so the channel was pretty new I think but the possibilities were SO interesting.
I could see that football trading was a lot more risky than matched betting and was under no illusions that it would be easy but we were at a different stage in our lives now and not so desperate.
The kids were older, work was stable, the bills weren’t piling up like before. I was in a good place to give it a go. I had about 2-3k saved from matched betting and I could see the potential.
We actually did best in matched betting from the so-called “risky” casino offers. One point getting a 5k win from one offer so we both felt like this was a risk worth taking. I understood from things like that it is about getting involved when the odds or the edge is in your favour then being patient and I thought I could apply it to football in a similar way. I LOVE football so this sounded a lot more fun then grinding out blackjack bonuses.
Sounds good, so was it around this time you joined Ultimate Football Trading? And how did that help you?
Yes, I kept following the videos you put up and then you opened the course before the world cup which was perfect timing. The wife was due to stay up north with her mum for the month with the kids and I had the whole month with the house to myself to drink beer, watch footy and learn how to trade football! HAHA!
But in all seriousness, we did sit down and have a good talk about it before I signed up. I think it is important to have the support of your partner before you do these things. She was sceptical about matched betting in the start but her mind is more open to these things now, especially after seeing the results.
We agreed that I would use the 3k I had from matched betting to buy the course then use the rest as a bank and try to grow it. If I ever went bust that would be the end of it. I actually think knowing that I only had one chance at this helped me as I decided to approach it from the safest possible way rather than chase the GLORY green screens that some put up on Twitter.
Yes I agree. I do hear about partners not being supportive but sometimes a good talk to help them understand everything can work wonders. Your partner usually WANTS to support you in anything but it can be easy to misunderstand this world.
So you had been practicing football trading for a few months, then you did the course, how did it go in the early days?
Lots of trial and error and I think the world cup was good learning curve. I absorbed myself in it all during that period. I lost money on it BUT by the end I KNEW which strategies I wanted to stick to when the new season began.
I watched the videos and wasn’t sure where to start so went with fireball as it is strategy 1 but then tried them all out over the course of the tournament.
I was only using £2 stakes so the money wasn’t important, I just wanted to learn as much as I could. In between matches I was watching more of the videos, emailing you for help or reading forums to learn more. I was also in Psychoffs telegram or discord group I think it was. That was interesting!!
As I said, I had the house to myself to enjoy it all, I remember the weather was AMAZING and England didn’t too badly either. I think I got the most drunk i had ever been after we won that shoot out against Colombia. So I look back on that time with fond memories especially considering what has happened in the world since.
Yes, let’s not go there. This is a pandemic free blog!
So, how long until you were profitable and what were your aims with football trading at this point?
I think it was during the following season when things started to click for me, around 3-4 months in.
I didn’t want to rush things and I remember you gave good advice at the start of the world cup along the lines of not being influenced by the profits others will make during it.
I saw Psychoff making £10k a day while I was locking in £2-3. I can imagine some might take silly risks trying to emulate that.
But I took comfort in knowing I was spotting similar opportunities to him and others who were more experienced. Like France- Argentina and backing France when it was 1-2 since they were by far the better team and System X on Japan Vs Belgium. Memorable moments for me even though I made about a fiver!
I went into the new season with a 2k bank but my maximum loss was only ever going to be 1%.
I know this is different from your advice but I wanted to make sure my bank lasted!!
I set it up like a business which was I loved the interview you did with Rob as it was so similar to me.
My aim was to make £200 per month which equates to 10% of my bank. I figured if I could do that and do it consistently then I could grow the bank.
If I can get to a £10k bank and then make £1000 extra per month I thought that would be life changing for me. Amazingly I did even better!
Yes so you mentioned you stuck to this even today, you have a £20k bank and you take home average £2-3k profit average per month.
A few questions that I am sure readers are thinking, why not try to make more? Any losing months? And do you keep it all in Betfair at once?
Yes it is average 2.5k per month looking over past 12 months but there is room to grow more I feel. I have losing days but over a whole month it doesn’t happen but I think this is because I trade in a “safe” way without taking big risks. I don’t chase losses or do recovery things. In my view you should be profitable flat staking.
And here is the thing, being so “safe” worked for me so I don’t think I will ever change it. I did double my risk to 2% but I think that is my limit. I am not disagreeing with your advice Ben, we just have to do what works well in our minds. For me, with everything we have been through, knowing I have a large bank as a cushion is actually what allows me to pick trades with NO FEAR.
I think if I begin to risk more then fear creeps in and I might do bad things. I won’t change this anytime soon. My wife and I have our aims for doing this and I won’t jeopardise that. We are not looking to get rich quick, we are happy to get rich slowly!
And NO WAY I never keep that all in my Betfair account. I have a dedicated online bank account where I keep the funds and I suggest others do the same. I use the same one from matched betting, dedicated debit card and so on. I keep the float in a high interest savings account while it sits there although that doesn’t generate much interest at all!!
We will get on to a bit more about your strategy approaches shortly but explain a bit more about those aims you mentioned? Getting rich slowly?
There is lots of things online about an American thing call the “FIRE movement” that your readers might want to learn more about.
The idea is to “get rich slowly and retire early” by paying down all debt and investing in the right places. We wish we knew more about this 10-15 years ago but we are looking to move in this direction now.
The grand plan is that I want to be able to pay off our mortgage early via football trading so we are debt free by 37 (in 2 years) but we will be happy to do it by 40.
We both kept our dayjobs during COVID (thankfully) so we are doing our normal payments but every month I match our mortgage payment with what I make from football trading and then at the end of the year any other profit on top of my bank goes into one BIG lump sum to pay it off.
I am disciplined in that the money made from football trading does NOT go anywhere else.
We have been aggressive with it over the past 2 years and now have about 25% left to pay off. I think we can do it within 2 years if we remain disciplined and I don’t take any silly risks. With everything shut it has been much easier to save which is one good thing from the pandemic!
I have told this plan to people who tell me paying off a mortgage early is a BAD move and to do other things with the money.
But like I said earlier, we went through so much struggle with debt that being in any sort of debt is something we never want to go through again. Once we have this paid off we feel we have some true financial freedom and with the kids growing up we can live our lives now with NO money worries at all.
By at least 40, we DO both want to quit our jobs, retire and travel but we know being mortgage free is the first step.
I don’t expect to do football trading forever but it works for now. Once the mortgage is paid, I will keep doing it while I can and we can grow the money in other ways to put the point where we can retire.
By 50 we want to be able to live only on passive income and hopefully abroad somewhere (Brexit permitting!).
Just to be clear, we are doing other things alongside football trading so it is not the only thing helping us get there but it is playing a big part. Google for FIRE movement to learn more. It is not for everyone as it takes tremendous discipline but it is for us.
EDIT: No need to Google, this link might help!
Love to hear things like this mate, retiring early always sounds good. So this is your goal and so how important is having a GOAL in mind when it comes to football trading?
Yes I think if you have a goal in life then it can help you be more sensible with it. I know people blow banks but I never blown my bank. Not because I am special but because I knew I needed to be extra careful with it. I think some people can end up failing because they take silly risks but if something bigger depended on it all they wouldn’t take those same risks.
I deleted social media since it is so negative and it can distract you from what you know is working. It is like having a 100 people shout at you at once about which strategy is best. I shared some early green screens at one point and got told I couldn’t be profitable in the long term that way by somebody so I was done with it. Focus on what works for you and work towards your own goals.
Doesn’t matter what others are doing or what they think!
Very true, I think social media can be a bad distraction, especially for those who are new and trying to focus.
So tell me more about your football trading and your safe approaches. What markets do you use? Strategies etc?
As mentioned I tried all the strategies from the UFT course and had fun, my first System X was a winner in the world cup but I had a bad losing streak after that so I knew I had to stick with strategies where I go into a trade EXPECTING to win the trade.
I can handle the odd losers, I just can’t handle many in a row. This was a good thing I learned about myself.
My favourites were Fireball and Snowball with a few of my own twists in there.
I am not sure how much I can say on here about the twists?
Say as much you like we can always edit things out ?
So with Fireball I use Goal Profits to find certain criteria. I won’t say this criterion on here but it is quite similar to what you tell us to look for, I am just looking for the REALLY good opportunities.
I then set the entry odds to be 1.85 as a minimum. For me this creates a genuinely nice risk-reward balance.
Sometimes the match doesn’t reach 1.85 odds but this is OK, there will be more that do.
I then also double check the half time shots on target if 0-0, if I see 2 or more I keep going with the strategy but less than 2, I do not put anymore orders into the market.
I also make the free bet when possible but also I like using the 5 minute rule you showed recently this has made some good surprise profits.
For snowball, I also have criteria I look for in Goal Profits.
I do the snowball like normal but my twist is I leave it as a free bet until a goal is scored. Sometimes no goal is scored and I make the biggest profit This makes me a much bigger profit and any UFT members reading should try this out. I was guilty of trying to make green screens too quickly before but now I am patient to wait.
Another tip for snowball, if in doubt get out and I stick to the 5 minute rule VERY strictly.
Interesting, I like these twists.
So do you watch the matches live and trade like that or use the in-play stats?
These days I only use the stats. I tried to make it work watching the live matches but I found I was tempted into taking risks I didn’t need to take. I found these extra trades were costing me money in the long term.
I think if you can trade without emotion and be able to go against the crowd you can do really well with match reading but I think most fail as football can be emotional and if you are a fan like me then it can be easy to get caught up in the moment.
Yes I understand. What were some of your early mistakes?
One of my silliest mistakes comes from making an emotional trade. I support Man Utd (like most southerners!) and during the Mourinho meltdown season we were playing Newcastle and I was convinced we were going to lose. We had been sh*t all season so far.
Anyway, Newcastle were 2-0 up in the first 10 minutes and the price was around 1.50 to back them (Newcastle).
I thought this was guaranteed money since I thought I “knew” the players had given up.
I backed Newcastle which was not part of any strategy, I just wanted to make some money out of our depressing failure.
In the end, we turned around and won 3-2. A spectacular comeback from my team. But I sat there even more depressed, losing money and knowing Mourinho would stay in his job even longer.
But I realised that trade was purely emotional, there was no logic behind it at all.
After this day, I definitely don’t trade Man Utd matches no matter what. I can’t be trusted!
Haha, I know what you mean.
So do you have any words of wisdom for the Sports Trading Life readers that could help them on their journey?
Yes, don’t trade matches involving the team you support!
But also, there is no shame in taking it slow and starting small. There are lots of people sharing BIG green screens out there but they have bigger banks to match and have probably been trading longer than most.
Start small and do your own thing. If you rush and try and take risks to make the HERO green screens you will just end up screwing yourself over.
Coming off social media was the best thing for me, I no longer worried about different strategies or how much other traders were making. I had my strategies and I was happy.
And think of this like a business.
Make a separate bank account for it, keep separate records and think of every trade you make as an investment that you want to make a return on. You are buying a bet and looking to make a return on it. Like if you were buying inventory and looking to sell it at a profit. But here you do not have to handle inventory or staff or rent or anything like that.
Not every bet will make you a return the same in most businesses that buy stock that has to get written off.
Similar for courses and tools, these are all investments in your business that will help improve your business. There is no way I would have learned matched betting to the level I did without a course and same for football trading. There seems to be some sort of shame in paying to get help which I don’t understand. Probably one reason I deleted social media!
Oh and have a GOAL in mind.
If you know what you are aiming for then you are more likely to get it and be disciplined too. Our goal is to retire early and be rich in retirement, this is just the start of the journey and we are patient enough to wait for it!
Finally, many fail at this but you have succeeded without even blowing a bank on the way. Why do you think people go wrong?
Discipline, plain and simple. This might come from not taking it seriously enough.
Many could argue they are taking it seriously but do they take the time to do the research, do the record keeping, stick to a staking plan and so on?
I know I just said it but set up like it is a business, if your business is going bad you wouldn’t quit after a bad week and you definitely wouldn’t throw your whole business bank account on one piece of stock (a bet!).
Many thanks for taking the time Peter!
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Everything from ditching the rubbish of social media – a resort for people with nothing better to do with their time- to ignoring the numpties who say you should not pay off your mortgage
We overpaid on our monthly payments, and 2 and a half years ago when we paid it off, the sense of freedom – as well as having a considerable increase in disposable income – is beyond description
And if you do go abroad, keep a UK bolthole, if you need to come back, you are likely to find realising your overseas assetts could take years
As to your trading philosophies – great,play it safe, build up slowly. Unfortunately I do not, by playing the correct score market which pre covoid made me steady returns, but since with the turnround in home/away results has resulted in losses. Am approacing the level where it will not allow my bank to deplete further and will start ago using your approach
Great interview, great attitudes, and £2k per month is fantastic
I think so too Colin, life is short and I know I would feel amazing if my mortgage was fully paid early. Still a bit of a way to go for me! 😀
Paying off mortgage debt is the sensible thing for risk-averse people to do. It means that, even in most worst-case scenarios, you won’t be evicted from your home. It also reduces the pressure to bring in large monthly incomes (which in the current climate is a highly risky strategy). By minimising your fixed monthly costs, you also increase your flexibility of life choices.
If you are a serious, successful, professional investor, then keeping low-interest mortgage debt whilst earning more on higher-return investments is of course sensible, but most people are not high powered investment professionals, so my take is that you want to do three things:
1. Pay off your mortgage.
2. Build a low-risk fund to cover ongoing house maintenance costs.
3. Put aside a cash nest egg to use either in emergencies or as a fund where quick access to cash can give great investment opportunities.
4. Build a low-risk, low-maintenance investment portfolio to fund retirement.
Once you have done those, you have the luxury of taking greater risks.
Until you have, everyone must decide how risky they wish to be…..
Love it Rhys!
Best trader talk so far for me. Very interesting. Thank you both Peter and Ben. Just wondering how many trades Peter does per day. Is he going for quality or pushing his edge with quantity?
I tend to go for quality over quantity. My criteria is really tight so I only do the really good opportunities, safest way imho!
Thank you Peter, my approach is very similar. Only problem I have got is to define what good opportunity really is.
This is a great interview. I’ll definitely be looking at FIRE! The point of paying off your mortgage early is something that I am aiming for too, the way I see it is that if the roof over your head is safe, then any worries disappear.
Do check it out Dan, I been doing some reading and it is interesting stuff!
Hi Peter and Ben,
Really interesting and honest. I totally agree with you on every point. Have blown my bank ( albeit , small , but still gone ) a couple of times and so then I took a big step away and actually looked at my behaviour!!
I realised I was ok at trading until I had a loss and then I panicked and tried to chase my losses ….NO !!
You are so right when you say discipline is the key, small % trades, choose trades selectively,and have a goal.
I have changed my trading outlook and am trying to follow your mindset, your article is brilliant for motivation.
I am a middle aged woman, love horse racing but realised that is too erratic, accidentally found Ben on you tube and a light bulb came on! I want to retire soon and want a little extra to supplement my pension. I want to travel and enjoy life, I am on my way, massive thanks.
Hope you succeed, and all the best.
The issue with making trading profits that are regularly high like this – £2-2.5k a month – has got to be Betfair commission. Dare I ask, how much is the (excellent) interviewee paying?
By what I read it is 20% up to £250k winnings, then you pay 40% and even more. (The info is notoriously unclear after that – is it a maximum 60% you pay and at what ‘lifetime of account’ profit level does that kick in?)
Any info and feedback welcome!
Thanks again for the great interview.